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	<title>Showbits &#187; James Marsters</title>
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		<title>Super Celebrities at the Super Megafest</title>
		<link>http://www.showbits.net/2009/11/24/super-megafest-2009/</link>
		<comments>http://www.showbits.net/2009/11/24/super-megafest-2009/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ken Gagne</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Celebrities]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Potpourri]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Brent Spiner]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Cindy Morgan]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[convention]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Data]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Framingham]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gargoyles]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[James Marsters]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Larry Storch]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Megafest]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Micky Dolenz]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Monkees]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Peter Tork]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Super Megafest]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[TNG]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showbits.net/?p=532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Super Megafest has become one of my many holiday traditions: the weekend before Thanksgiving, I head to the Framingham Sheraton for an unusual amalgam of sci-fi actors, classic celebrities, comic books, and cosplay. Though this year&#039;s event had fewer celebrities that personally appealed to me, those on the roster were ones I couldn&#039;t believe [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Super Megafest has become one of my many holiday traditions: the weekend before Thanksgiving, I head to the Framingham Sheraton for an unusual amalgam of sci-fi actors, classic celebrities, comic books, and <a href="http://www.gamebits.net/tag/cosplay/" title="Gamebits » cosplay">cosplay</a>.  Though this year&#039;s event had fewer celebrities that personally appealed to me, those on the roster were ones I couldn&#039;t believe I&#039;d have the good fortune to see in person. [<a href="http://www.showbits.net/2009/11/24/super-megafest-2009/#gallery" title="Super Megafest 2009 photo gallery">photos after the jump</a>]</p>
<p><a class="thickbox" rel="" href='http://www.showbits.net/wp-content/uploads/gallery/megafest09/Super Megafest 2009 - 01.jpg' title='Brent Spiner signs a photo for a fan.'><img src='http://www.showbits.net/wp-content/uploads/gallery/megafest09/thumbs/thumbs_Super Megafest 2009 - 01.jpg' alt='Brent Spiner signs a photo for a fan' class='ngg-singlepic ngg-right' /></a>Upon arriving, I made a beeline for the corner, where there was hardly no wait to meet <a href="http://www.therealbrentspiner.com/" title="THE REAL BRENT SPINER WEBSITE">Brent Spiner</a>, who played <a href="http://www.showbits.net/tag/data/" title="Data — Showbits">Data</a> on <em><a href="http://www.showbits.net/tag/tng/" title="TNG — Showbits">Star Trek: The Next Generation</a></em>.  Instead of a handshake, he offered a fist bump, citing a cold.  Though I&#039;m sure he was sincere, even if he wasn&#039;t, it seemed an effective tactic to avoid getting sick, given the number of fans I&#039;m sure he was to meet at such an event.  I had him sign a picture of Data as a poker dealer, though had I noticed that a shot of him as Sherlock Holmes on the holodeck was also available, I might&#039;ve opted for that one.  As he signed it, I told him how encouraging it was to grow up watching a show where an intelligent, socially awkward individual could be a respected and contributing member of a team.  &#034;Yeah, that&#039;s a neat thing they did there, isn&#039;t it?&#034; he replied.  While he next signed the insert from my CD of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ol%27_Yellow_Eyes_Is_Back" title="Ol' Yellow Eyes Is Back -- Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia">his 1991 album, <em>Ol&#039; Yellow Eyes Is Back</em></a>, I commented that a film I rarely hear his fans mention is <em>Out to Sea</em>, a delightful 1997 comedy with Jack Lemmon, Walter Matthau, and Dyan Cannon in which he played a fantastic villain.  &#034;I thought that was a great film!&#034; I told him.  &#034;So did I!&#034; he agreed.</p>
<p><a class="thickbox" rel="" href='http://www.showbits.net/wp-content/uploads/gallery/megafest09/Super Megafest 2009 - 03.jpg' title='James Marsters, aka Spike the vampire from the TV show Buffy.  He&#039;s also appeared on Torchwood and Smallville.'><img src='http://www.showbits.net/wp-content/uploads/gallery/megafest09/thumbs/thumbs_Super Megafest 2009 - 03.jpg' alt='James Marsters' class='ngg-singlepic ngg-left' /></a>I next got in a rather long line for James Marsters, best known as the undead Spike on <em>Buffy the Vampire Slayer</em>.  As with Mr. Spiner, I continued my trend of acknowledging the actors&#039; lesser-known works, as I know from my limited experience in community theater that it&#039;s not always your best performance that&#039;s the one people remember.  &#034;I thought you were <a href="http://www.showbits.net/2007/10/30/superman-doomsday/" title="Clash of the Titans — Showbits">a great Lex Luthor</a>,&#034; I told Mr. Marsters.  He seemed genuinely surprised to hear that: &#034;Oh!  Thanks!  It was particularly interesting to go back and do <em>Smallville</em> after that,&#034; he reflected, referencing his appearance on that show as Brainiac.  He parodied a conversation with Michael Rosenbaum, that show&#039;s Luthor: &#034;&#039;So, you played my role, eh?&#039;&#034;  Mr. Marsters told me he&#039;ll be doing more voice work on <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185834/" title="Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2008)">the <em>Clone Wars</em> animated series</a>, though he doesn&#039;t yet know what part he&#039;ll play.</p>
<p>I hurried from Mr. Marster&#039;s table to the celebrity Q&amp;A session, occurring every half-hour.  I arrived a few minutes late to Mr. Spiner&#039;s session, at which point I was surprised to find fans asking not about his life on the Enterprise, but his life on the stage.  Mr. Spiner is an accomplished stage actor, having appeared on Broadway before he did on <em>Star Trek</em>.  He told us about his 1997 performance in the musical <em>1776</em>: &#034;We had the Tonies wrapped up&#8230; until <em>Cabaret</em> opened a week before the awards.&#034;  Someone else also brought up <em>Out to Sea</em>, to which he said: &#034;My life would be very different if people had seen that movie.  My life would also be very different if <a href="http://www.showbits.net/2007/03/24/de-lovely/" title="Another Op'nin', Another Show — Showbits">Kevin Kline</a> had never been born.&#034;</p>
<p><span id="more-532"></span>Mr. Spiner is <a href="http://twitter.com/BrentSpiner" title="Brent Spiner (BrentSpiner) on Twitter">a prolific Twitter user</a> and spoke about the medium.  &#034;There is some Twitter pressure.  If I don&#039;t write anything for three days, they have the cops looking for me.&#034;  He asked my partner-in-crime, Gene, &#034;Do you follow me on Twitter?&#034;  &#034;<a href="http://twitter.com/GeneD5" title="GeneD5 (GeneD5) on Twitter">I don&#039;t</a>,&#034; he admitted, which prompted Mr. Spiner to ask: &#034;What&#039;s wrong with you?&#034;</p>
<p>Such acerbic commentary was surprisingly characteristic of Mr. Spiner&#039;s session.  He badmouthed people he&#039;s worked for (&#034;The <em>Family Guy</em> episode was awful.  If I&#039;d known I&#039;d get three lines, I never would&#039;ve done it.  Couldn&#039;t Seth MacFarlane have given Patrick Stewart 43 lines instead of 47?&#034;), expressed confusion over why people are so illogical as to wear shorts (&#034;Because it gets <em>so</em> hot down there!&#034; he sarcasticaly observed), and expressed no enthusiasm to reprise his role as Data (&#034;I&#039;m too old to be putting on that makeup.  Do you remember what Harpo Marx looked like near the end?  Maybe if they pay me $5 million.&#034;)  But, like Don Rickles, he ensured &#034;You know this was all in fun, right?&#034;  We did, and it was hilarious.</p>
<p>Surprisingly, the biggest laugh of the session didn&#039;t come from Mr. Spiner.  Near the end of the session, I raised my hand for a question, and he called on me: &#034;Ken, right?&#034;  I was absolutely shocked that he remembered me from an hour earlier.  In that moment I was stunned, he explained, &#034;I remember the names of everyone I&#039;ve ever met.  It&#039;s the strangest thing.&#034;  I offered, &#034;Wow &mdash; it&#039;s like you&#039;re a robot or something!&#034;  I thought it was a throwaway line, but the audience roared, during which Mr. Spiner stood there and silently glared at me.  When he could be heard again, he turned to the back of the room, pointed at me, and called, &#034;Security!&#034;</p>
<p>But I did get to ask my question, and as I did <a href="http://www.showbits.net/2008/11/26/super-megafest-2008/" title="The Return of Super Megafest — Showbits">the previous year with Jonathan Frakes</a>, I told Mr. Spiner that I loved <em>Gargoyles</em> and asked what his favorite part of voice acting is.  &#034;I get to wear my own clothes, for one.&#034;  But he confessed to not having seen not only JJ Abrams&#039; Star Trek, but also most of <em>TNG</em> or any of <em>Gargoyles</em>.  &#034;The whole time I was recording that show, I had no idea what [Puck] looked like,&#034; he commented, referring to his character.</p>
<p>There were still several questions remaining when Mr. Spiner&#039;s time was up, so he quickly tossed out some answers: &#034;When I was 14&#8230; It depends&#8230; and Mozart, I guess.&#034;  What the corresponding questions might&#039;ve been, we&#039;ll never know.</p>
<p><a class="thickbox" rel="" href='http://www.showbits.net/wp-content/uploads/gallery/megafest09/Super Megafest 2009 - 08.jpg' title='Peter Tork of The Monkees.  Also at SMF was Micky Dolenz.'><img src='http://www.showbits.net/wp-content/uploads/gallery/megafest09/thumbs/thumbs_Super Megafest 2009 - 08.jpg' alt='Peter Tork of The Monkees.' class='ngg-singlepic ngg-right' /></a>Next up was Peter Tork of The Monkees, who was in attendance at Super Megafest with fellow Monkee Micky Dolenz.  Mr. Tork&#039;s session was well-attended but a bit more subdued.  I couldn&#039;t tell if he actually liked the attention or not, and when he spent five minutes retelling his favorite Bugs Bunny skits, it seemed like a diversionary tactic to avoid speaking his own mind.  But when asked direct questions, he didn&#039;t shy from the truth &mdash; such as regarding the prospect of a Monkees reunion.  &#034;When hell freezes over,&#034; he was quick to reply.  Who&#039;s the holdout?  &#034;I will not work with Mike [Nesmith].  He renegs &mdash; he doesn&#039;t keep his word.&#034;</p>
<p>Another fan asked what kind of music Mr. Tork likes nowadays.  &#034;I like singer/songwriter.  I&#039;ll be spinning the dial and come across a country song that&#039;s truly inspired, and the singer has something to say&#8230; Then the next song will be, &#039;My girlfriend left me so I&#039;m drinking myself stupid.&#039;  I don&#039;t care for that.&#034;  As a country music fan, I appreciated Mr. Tork&#039;s willingness to separate content from style.</p>
<p>Mr. Tork closed by inviting an audience member from the audience to do the Monkee walk, creating a wonderful memory for one lucky fan.</p>
<p>Also in attendance at Super Megafest 2009 was <a href="http://www.showbits.net/2007/11/20/super-megafest/" title="A Super Time at the Megafest — Showbits">Larry Storch</a>, whom I was fortunate enough to meet at the 2007 event; and Cindy Morgan, with whom I neglected to reminisce about a time, six years and three thousand miles ago, when I said something that <a href="http://www.showbits.net/2007/01/11/tron-comic/" title="End of line. — Showbits">prompted her to punch Bruce Boxleitner</a>.</p>
<p>My expenses at this year&#039;s Super Megafest were typical for such an event.  Brent Spiner cost $40 per autograph, or $70 for two, including the glossy headshot.  James Marsters was $40, plus $5 for the photo.  Peter Tork and Micky Dolenz were $25 each; I took advantage of the former to have signed my DVD insert from <em>The Brady Bunch Movie</em>.  New this year was a local studio offering <a href="http://froggysphotos.com/bostonsupermegapresales.html" title="Boston SUPER Megafest Pre-Sales!!">professional photos with your favorite celebrity</a>.  I saw a few of the pics, and they were high quality &mdash; but at $40 a pop, not including JPEGs, reprints, or autographs, it seemed an unnecessary indulgence even to someone who&#039;s willing to pay for celebrity signatures.  Unfortunately, the studio&#039;s exclusivity meant no more impromptu posed pictures at the autograph table, like I got with <a class="thickbox" rel="" href='http://www.showbits.net/wp-content/uploads/gallery/megafest/megafest1.jpg' title='Ray Park, who played Darth Maul in &lt;em&gt;Star Wars Episode I&lt;/em&gt; and Toad in &lt;em&gt;X-Men&lt;/em&gt;.  Photo courtesy Hiphopguy23.'>Ray Park in 2007</a>.</p>
<p>The Super Megafest is always a great opportunity to meet the stars, but this year, I feel like I also got to know them.  I can&#039;t wait to see what other celebrities future Megafests will make real.</p>
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		<title>Beantown Is Geektown</title>
		<link>http://www.showbits.net/2009/11/02/beantown-is-geektown/</link>
		<comments>http://www.showbits.net/2009/11/02/beantown-is-geektown/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ken Gagne</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Potpourri]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Ray Park]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Super Megafest]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showbits.net/?p=523</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The passing of Halloween means the holidays are nearly upon us &#8212; but if you&#039;re a geek in Boston, then there are far more significant festivities headed your way. The biggest and best celebrities of science fiction will be coming to Massachusetts for three different events this month: &#8226; On Saturday, November 14th, the touring [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.gamebits.net/2009/10/25/halloween-costumes/" title="Gamebits » Video Gaming Halloween">The passing of Halloween</a> means the holidays are nearly upon us &mdash; but if you&#039;re a geek in Boston, then there are far more significant festivities headed your way.  The biggest and best celebrities of science fiction will be coming to Massachusetts for three different events this month:</p>
<p>&bull; On Saturday, November 14th, the touring<a href="http://www.starwarsinconcert.com/" title="Star Wars: In Concert"> &#034;<em>Star Wars</em> In Concert&#034;</a> comes to the TD Garden for both <a href="http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/0100432C9BD86448?artistid=1344151&#038;majorcatid=10002&#038;minorcatid=203" title="Star Wars In Concert tickets TD Garden Boston, MA, Directions, seating chart. Official Ticketmaster site.">a 3:00 PM matinee</a> and <a href="http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/01004322723351D9?artistid=1344151&#038;majorcatid=10002&#038;minorcatid=203" title="Star Wars In Concert tickets TD Garden Boston, MA, Directions, seating chart. Official Ticketmaster site.">an 8:00 PM performance</a>.  The concert is described as &#034;John Williams&#039; breathtaking score from the epic <em>Star Wars</em> saga &#8230; performed by a live symphony orchestra and chorus, accompanied by a stunning video montage on an enormous LED screen.&#034;  Anthony Daniels (C-3PO) has been narrating this concert, though it&#039;s unclear if that&#039;s only at specific venues.  Us Bostonians are no stranger to hearing Mr. Williams&#039; soundtracks performed live, as the composer is also the director emeritus of the renowned <a href="http://www.bso.org/bso/index.jsp?id=bcat5220105" title="Boston Symphony Orchestra">Boston Pops Orchestra</a> and often serves as guest conductor, but a dedicated concert to this particular score is a rare treat.  Tickets are $32.50, $52.50, or $72.50, plus applicable taxes and fees.</p>
<p>&bull; That same weekend is the <a href="http://www.nefanx.com/" title="The Online Home of the New England Fan Experience">New England Fan Experience</a> (NEFX) sci-fi convention.  <em>Star Trek</em> headliners include Bostonian <a href="http://www.showbits.net/tag/leonard-nimoy/" title="Leonard Nimoy — Showbits">Leonard Nimoy</a> (Spock Prime) as well as John de Lancie (Q), though the former will be available only on Saturday, competing with the aforementioned <em>Star Wars</em> concert.  <a href="http://www.nefanx.com/experience/index.php?cPath=21" title="Memberships / Tickets - Sci-Fi Experience">Online tickets</a> (via a Web site that is remarkably reminiscent of <a href="http://blogs.computerworld.com/14969/yahoo_geocities_closes_on_october_26" title="Yahoo GeoCities closes on Oct. 26 - Computerworld Blogs">a GeoCities page</a>) are available through November 6th for $45 each, or for $50 at the door.</p>
<p>&bull; NEFX 2009 is held a week earlier than in 2008, avoiding the conflict that occurred last year with the annual <a href="http://www.supermegafest.com/" title="Welcome to the Super Megafest Homepage">Super Megafest</a>, traditionally held the weekend before Thanksgiving.  That means this year, you can attend NEFX one week and Super Megafest the next!  The latter is held in Framingham, less than a half-hour west of Boston.  The expo &mdash; which features an unusual amalgam of sci-fi actors, comic book artists, TV show stars, and pro wrestlers &mdash; will this year present <a href="http://www.showbits.net/tag/brent-spiner/" title="Brent Spiner — Showbits">Brent Spiner</a> (<em>Star Trek</em>&#039;s Data), <a href="http://www.showbits.net/tag/ray-park/" title="Ray Park — Showbits">Ray Park</a> (<em>Star Wars</em>&#039; Darth Maul and, more recently, <em>G.I. Joe</em>&#039;s Snake Eyes), and James Marsters (<em>Buffy</em>&#039;s Spike).  In addition to signings, each star also has a half-hour Q&amp;A session, though the schedule is unknowable prior to the event: an email from its coordinator informed me, &#034;No, panels will not be posted on the site. Most celebs will do Q&amp;A sessions both days. However sat is probably the better day to see more Q&amp;A sessions.&#034;  Last year I happened to show up just in time to see <a href="http://www.showbits.net/tag/jonathan-frakes/" title="Jonathan Frakes — Showbits">Jonathan Frakes</a>; otherwise I would&#039;ve been out of luck.  The actual show floor is quite small but packs a lot into it.  Tickets for the entire November 21-22 weekend are only $20.</p>
<p>Though the two conventions offer cheaper admittance than the orchestral concert, they also have the most potential to drain your allowance, based on how many celebrity autographs you want to go home with; typical fees range from $20 to $50 or more per signing.  This will be <a href="http://www.showbits.net/tag/super-megafest/" title="Super Megafest — Showbits">my third Super Megafest</a>, and I usually budget $100 for at least three autographs.</p>
<p>If you&#039;ll be attending either the <em>Star Wars</em> matinee or the Super Megafest, be sure to say hello to Showbits!</p>
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		<title>Clash of the Titans</title>
		<link>http://www.showbits.net/2007/10/30/superman-doomsday/</link>
		<comments>http://www.showbits.net/2007/10/30/superman-doomsday/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Ken Gagne</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Reviews]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Adam Baldwin]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Anne Heche]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bruce Timm]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[comic book]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[DC]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[DC Comics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doomsday]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Duane Capizzi]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[James Marsters]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[superheroes]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Superman]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Warner Bros]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.showbits.net/2007/10/30/superman-doomsday/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most comic book movies have been adaptations of concept rather than of story. What we&#039;ve seen have not been translations plot-for-plot from one medium to another, but instead familiar characters and situations being used to invent new adventures for a new audience. Such is the case with the recent direct-to-DVD release Superman: Doomsday. Despite being [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most comic book movies have been adaptations of concept rather than of story.  What we&#039;ve seen have not been translations plot-for-plot from one medium to another, but instead familiar characters and situations being used to invent new adventures for a new audience.  Such is the case with the recent direct-to-DVD release <a href="http://www.warnervideo.com/supermandoomsdaydvd/" title="Superman / Doomsday" rel="tag"><em>Superman: Doomsday</em></a>.</p>
<p>Despite being animated, this movie is not wholly based on the previous cartoon series, either.  The voice cast is all-new, including Adam Baldwin, James Marsters, and Anne Heche.  The animation style is slightly different &#8212; a bit darker and more detailed (the lines on Superman&#039;s face suggest an older, more pessimistic character; whereas Luthor looks leaner and younger).  And the story&#039;s tone is markedly different from anything that&#039;s come before.</p>
<p>The movie&#039;s first half-hour is based on the 1993 landmark event: the death of Superman at the hands of the alien Doomsday.  And the team responsible for this adaptation has done a fantastic job portraying that titular villain, for Doomsday as a mindless organic killing machine has been captured in all his animalistic and fearsome glory.  In all his frenetic action sequences, I never once got the impression that he was angry or vengeful or in any other way emotional, but just a mindless automaton.  The closest we get to expression is when Superman is the first to not fall to a single punch: Doomsday cocks his head, intrigued or confused as a dog might be &#8212; before quickly resuming the fight.  Probably the most humanity exhibited in this entire sequence was by the audience at the fight&#039;s climax; Superman (particularly Christopher Reeve) is one of my heroes, and <A HREF = "/index.php?p=102" TITLE="Truth, Justice -- All That Stuff">to see his death in any medium</A> is distressing.</p>
<p>And that&#039;s an accurate word for this cartoon, which is far more violent than its predecessors.  Though the film is judicious in exactly what gets shown, the aggression is nonetheless apparent.  In one scene, the camera focuses on a soldier&#039;s head disappearing into Doomsday&#039;s gigantic fist; the screen pans up to Doomsday&#039;s face before we see the muscles of his arm twisting and a sickening crunch sounding.  We may not have witnessed the murder, but it certainly leaves little to the imagination.  Doomsday isn&#039;t the only heartless killer; we also see Luthor economically dispose of one of his hirelings.  This is all in vast contrast to the Saturday morning cartoon.  As far as I know, there was only one death in <em>Superman: The Animated Series</em>&#039;s entire five-year span, and that was the bloodless vaporization of Dan Turpin.</p>
<p>For a story about the death of Superman, this escalation was both necessary and appropriate &#8212; and it&#039;s still probably less violent than the graphic novels.  Yet I was still shocked, being unaccustomed to seeing such slaughter in any Superman vehicle.  Shock is a good thing, though; when a character or story becomes predictable is when it loses me as a viewer.</p>
<p>It was this captivating and extended opening sequence that kept me through the rest, though I found the follow-up a bit disappointing.  It&#039;s not just that the parallels to the comic book inspiration disappear after Superman&#039;s death; fitting the entire &#034;Death of Superman&#034; / &#034;Funeral For a Friend&#034; / &#034;Reign of the Superman&#034; story, which originally took more than a year of weekly comics to tell, into a 75-minute movie would be a herculean task.  But the original story they&#039;ve crafted to follow the Doomsday blitzkrieg doesn&#039;t strike any chords of emotion or intrigue.  It&#039;s instead a rather mundane plot with no surprise heroes, villains, appearances, or twists &#8212; something I&#039;d expect to find in another episode of a Saturday morning cartoon, if I haven&#039;t already, and not in a once-in-a-lifetime comic book epic.</p>
<p>Even if the circumstances of Superman&#039;s death and return are not wholly true to the source material, they needn&#039;t be; this is a different story, in a different medium.  The parts that are done well are done extremely well and make the entire package worth viewing, if not owning.</p>
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